The Lab Safety Gurus
Discover the secrets to enhancing laboratory safety without the hassle of navigating complex regulations and modifying established practices.
Tune in to the enlightening discussions led by the knowledgeable Dan the Lab Safety Man and infectious disease behaviorist Sean Kaufman. Together, they explore a wide range of lab safety subjects on a weekly basis.
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The Lab Safety Gurus
Promises We Keep: Getting Everyone Home Safe Every Night
What can spiritual practices teach us about laboratory safety? In this thought-provoking discussion, Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman draw unexpected parallels between religious observances like Lent and Ramadan and the discipline required for maintaining a safe laboratory environment.
We explore the challenging journey of behavioral change in laboratory settings, questioning how long it truly takes to transform safety habits and create lasting cultural shifts. Sean offers a powerful reframing: rather than focusing solely on habit formation timelines, we should identify what distracts us from safety consciousness and replace those distractions with safer alternatives.
Cell phones emerge as a primary laboratory safety concern, but we dig deeper into the myriad distractions affecting laboratory professionals: personal stressors, workplace pressures, interpersonal conflicts, and psychological safety concerns. Each of these can compromise our commitment to safety protocols and put ourselves and others at risk. The most compelling moment comes when we articulate the three fundamental promises laboratory professionals make daily: to return home safely to loved ones, to ensure colleagues can do the same, and to protect the wider community from laboratory hazards.
The conversation concludes with practical wisdom through the STAR methodology (Stop, Think, Act, Review) and a challenge to listeners: take time during this reflective season to identify what distracts you from laboratory safety and consciously replace those distractions with safer behaviors. Your commitment to mindful safety practices doesn't just protect you—it honors the promises you've made to your loved ones, colleagues, and community. What safety distraction will you eliminate today?
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast. I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2:And I'm Sean Kaufman, and together we're providing safety insights for those working in laboratory settings, doing safety together.
Speaker 1:Hey Sean Kaufman, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Dan, I am doing good. I have to apologize to you. We have been trying so hard to get together on a weekly, if not monthly, basis to do the podcast and every single time we have done this. I don't think you've ever canceled, I've had to cancel on you, so I owe you an apology. My friend, I am so sorry. And to the listeners I apologize for not getting more programs up and out, but we are, we're determined and we're going to continue to roll forward. So, dan, thanks for not quitting on me.
Speaker 1:I will never quit on you, sean. This has been a great experience. I think there's a lot of people getting a lot out of this and, yes, we're going to get some more out there for you guys, and it's coming soon, but you know now, right now, it is the season of Lent, so, as a Christian, I observe Lent. I know that it's also the middle, right about the middle of Ramadan, that where other people observe that and in other religions as well, and you know, it is kind of a time to take a pause and to reflect about our relationship with our creator. And and and a lot of people, sean, do things like give something up, uh, in in ramadan, you're required to do that, uh, for certain times of the day. Uh, people give up something, uh, a lot.
Speaker 1:Not everybody, but some christians give things up during the season of Lent because it's a spiritual discipline. So, when you start to crave something that you've given up maybe it's a food, maybe it's a sweet, maybe there's other things in your life that you wanted to separate yourself from and then you have the desire to do that, you should go to God and be thinking about God and talking to God about it, instead of worrying about that thing that you gave up. So that's kind of how we look at the spiritual discipline end of things. But you know, we had a conversation before you and I, sean, about. You know, in order to change human behavior it always makes me think back to lab safety. But in order to change human behavior, I think you said you have to like do something for a year, and I'm just stunned by that thought to think, wow, so if I want to be compliant with wearing goggles and I don't mean to, like you know, drill it down to that level right away but you know, does that mean that I have to just force myself to wear them for a year before I'll just do it automatically?
Speaker 1:Or did it take me a year to learn to wear my seatbelt? Because, you know, I'm old enough to remember when you didn't have to, before it was the law, and I actually was a kid when that happened. I remember my father struggling about the seatbelt. He would not do it, and when he finally you know, police would maybe stop you or whatever he would like throw it over his shoulder, but not actually buckle, buckle it. I'm like dad, what do you? What do you? Just just buckle it, but it just he struggled and I think I feel like it was more than a year. But but when I think about changing culture in the laboratory, can it really take a year? And and and so? So, unlike lent or ramadan, instead of giving something up, if you take something on, that's new. How long is it going to take you with that behavior and and and it? Does that mean that culture change is impossible? I don't mean to go all the way there, but that's something.
Speaker 1:That's kind of how it made me feel when you said that well, I let's let's hope not there.
Speaker 2:I mean the. The question that you ask is so deep and has so many complexities. Dan, it really really does. I mean, first and foremost, lent is always an important part of the year for me as well. It's a time where my relationship with God is not only examined, but I become a lot closer to God. During this season of Lent, you know, I look at this world not as the world that I belong to. It's the world that I am living in. I belong at home with my father, which means I'm kind of in a state of fast right now. I'm here, but I want to be there, and in between I'm going to face a lot of frustration and I have to go through life to, and hopefully, make it to the end and have an eternal retirement with my father.
Speaker 2:But during that time that's the tough part as we're going through life life requires us to be disciplined in many different ways, and the question you're asking about is a complex one. Does it take a whole year to learn a new habit? No, does it take a whole year to become habitual in a behavior? No, but here's the deal. This is the difference. It's about bad habits, it's about how long it takes for us to extinguish and replace those habits that we've been doing for so long that we learn or discover are not so good or not so healthy.
Speaker 2:And so you know, in sticking with the theme of Lent and how we came to this conversation today, we're talking about well, what if we challenged people during this season to identify a new, safer behavior to do, one that replaces an old one? So say, for example, instead of eating chocolate, you're going to have a piece of fruit, a healthier behavior. Not that chocolate's bad, but if you wanted to replace one behavior with another, let's go healthier and we're going to replace chocolate with a piece of fruit. Same goes with the laboratory environment. What can we do from a behavioral context that would replace, maybe, bad behaviors or behaviors that could be improved upon with newer and safer ones? And so that's sticking with the theme how can we reflect upon what we currently do and identify new ways of doing things that are safer and healthier for the collective group? So that's kind of my thought process on that, dan.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I can go along with that, but I think one of the things you have to do first if I want that for somebody in a laboratory, let's say the culture is not great and the issue is I always go back to cell phones. But let's say it's cell phone use, earbud use and lack of compliance with use of PPE, just a mix of that throughout the lab. I don't think I could challenge somebody to do the right thing without first providing some sort of education about the potential consequences of those unsafe behaviors. You know this is lab think all the way through. I've been working in a lab for 30 years, sean, and I've never buttoned my lab coat. Well, nothing's ever happened to me.
Speaker 1:So people are following luck, not science, because the science says something's eventually going to happen or you're very lucky and there are a lot of lucky people working out there. So it's hard to convince them, even if you tell them what the potential consequences, that using their cell phone in the lab is pretty dangerous. And maybe they've had consequences and don't know it. Maybe they went home sick for two weeks or even got hospitalized with salmonella, which for some reason tends to be like the number one organism that cell phones bring home from the lab, and they never connected it in their head. Oh, I got infected in the lab, but I didn't realize that's what happened, or I just got sick, you know. And so they don't connect the two, and so they again think that there's no harm in those behaviors.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you know, when we decide sticking with Lent and even Ramadan, we have to look at what the intention of a fast is. The intention of a fast is not necessarily just with food. The intention or the intention of a fast is to actually identify things that are serving as a distraction. So if we go into the faith aspect, we are identifying the things in our lives that distract us from a relationship with God. So let's take that fast methodology, that fast purpose, and let's bring it into the lab. What things distract us from being safe? One of them, you mentioned a cell phone. That's a classic. Maybe inattention to personal protective equipment, maybe inattention to hand cleanliness. Here's the point.
Speaker 2:If you're joining us in this mission, let's just say, during Lent, you're going to choose to do something better in the laboratory. The first thing you've got to do is you really, truly have got to say, okay, I'm going to identify the things that are distracting me from being safe, fully attentive, fully aware, fully engaged in the work that I'm doing. And once I identify potential distractors, what I'm going to do is I'm going to replace those distractors with safer behaviors, and that's what I'm talking about here. So, for example, if we use faith rather than being on social media. If I'm abstaining from social media, I'm fasting from social media. Rather than being on social media, I'm praying or I'm doing something that brings me closer to God. Rather than eating, I'm praying or I'm doing something closer to God.
Speaker 2:So, rather than being on a cell phone, what can I be doing in exchange of the cell phone to bring me closer to the work or closer to safety in the culture of the organization? That's kind of the intent. That's what we're looking at. What do you think distracts most people in the laboratory, Dan? I mean, cell phones is a huge distraction. What would be another one?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean in a laboratory every day there are lots of distractions, but things that distract you from safety specifically, it could be. There's so many potential reasons it could be. You know you've got something going on in your personal life and you're just not even thinking about it. I can remember coming up to a lady who was using her cell phone in the lab and I said, hey, you know, we're not, we're not, we're not supposed to be doing that, it's not a safe habit. And she burst into tears. And the reason she burst into tears is security just called her on her cell phone to tell her her car was just hit in the parking garage. So you know again, could she have done something different? Yeah, she should have gotten up, shaken off her PPE, gone out in the hallway, answered her phone.
Speaker 1:Then I'm not trying to excuse the behavior, but you know there's personal things that can distract us all day long. There could be work things, work pressures. Hey, you know, I've been told I got to get, I got to do at least so many units of service per hour and I'm not meeting that standard and I could be in trouble. So I'm just going to work fast, I'm not going to take the time to do whatever I'm going to, not put my gloves on whatever it is. I mean, the phone itself is a distraction. That's a different kind of distraction in the way that you spoke about it, because I think the phone can distract you from doing good laboratory work.
Speaker 2:Well, 100% Bad for reasons, whatever you're doing 100%.
Speaker 2:I mean staying hydrated, eating well, uh. Conflict resolution, if you've got grudges or you're not in good standing with other staff members, uh, you know, if you feel, uh a concern, you don't feel psychologically safe in your environment. I mean, there's so many, so many things that can distract us interpersonally, interpersonally, even within the environment as well, and it's really a chance during this time to to just pause and and and reflect on things that could be distracting you from being the best and the safest laboratory professional out there. And again, that's really all Lent is is a season and a time for us to reflect on the things that are distracting us from our priority. And, dan, this is important.
Speaker 2:This is where it comes in when you ask a laboratory staff member what their priority is. I know they're dedicated to their work. I know it and that matters. But, dan, the priority, in my opinion, is that they get home to their loved ones safely every single night, that they've made promises to the people they work with that they, too, will be able to return home safely at the end of every night and, last but not least, that they've made promises to the community that they work in, that they won't take their work in the lab and cause other people outside of the lab to get sick, and those are huge promises that we can't be distracted from. So even if, during the season of Lent, we ask every laboratory professional to think about the promises that they've made and to try to personally identify the distractions that keep them from keeping those promises, again, I think it's a step in the right direction. Not a traditional approach, but it certainly is a step in the right direction.
Speaker 1:And I liked it, I think, taking the time to first take a breath from the busy day that you're having and to be thinking about these things. But also, if you're in laboratory leadership, take a breath and think about, take a look at what's going on in your laboratory, but also think things through. You know, when you think about all these. You know I was in a meeting today with some laboratory managers and one of the managers said to me well, you know, you have to have your cell phone on you because we get those alerts if there's something. What? If there's something like an active shooter in our laboratory and we're in the safe room? We won't know. There's an all clear. And I thought, wow, so you're really not thinking the whole scenario through, because you know if you're in a safe room, your phone should be totally off, because you don't want to get an alert on your phone that's going to be audible and let the shooter know where you are, for example. So I understand that there are things that we're trying to think for the benefit of our employees and ourselves and our families, but you have to take it all the way to the end to understand what the potential consequences could be. And so you do have to take a moment to think about it.
Speaker 1:So I don't know I'm sure you've done this test, sean, before where you there are words and they're written in different colors.
Speaker 1:So here's the word green, but it's written in red. Here's the word green, but it's written in red. Here's the word blue, but it's written in yellow, and all of that, and you start clapping your hands and you have the people in the room read that, read the words, and then you next do it again and you clap your hands a little bit faster and you make them tell the color of the word, not the word itself. And if you kind of start clapping like once per second, it's kind of difficult for the people to do. But if you slow that down to just about two seconds suddenly between claps, suddenly they're able to do it because you're doing a safety thing, you're stopping, you're thinking, you're acting and you're reviewing.
Speaker 1:That's STAR terminology that we've heard in places and that is so key in the laboratory to safety, when you're the busiest, when you're the most likely to be distracted. Take a moment, stop, think, act and review, and I think that's a really cool tool that we can use when we're trying to think about ways to be safer during this time of the year 100% agree Dan Absolutely, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So I am with you. I think I'm with you on initiating this challenge. You, the listener, what can you do during this time, even if it's a two week period, a one week period, a month period, whatever you think you can do, what can you do that can remove distractions from safety behaviors in the laboratory? And it's like Sean said, it's about your safety, it's about your co-worker's safety and the environment's safety. The people who are outside the laboratory. You can do things. Environment safety the people who are outside the laboratory you can do things wrong with safety and we've seen it that can affect the whole world literally.
Speaker 1:So you have, there's a reason for safety. You have to be safe, and I think it's a great challenge and I think, if you try it and it doesn't work, I think after a couple weeks, take a pause, think about something else you want to focus on and try it again. I don't think we only need to limit this to the Lenten season or Ramadan or any other specific time of the year. We should be doing this all year long 100%, I agree.
Speaker 2:I think again, it's just a good time now if we can pair it with this season to just stop and reflect and identify not only things that distract us but how we can develop new disciplines within ourselves to stay safer in the laboratory environments.
Speaker 1:And if you can do that, you're on your way to improving your lab safety culture.
Speaker 2:We are the lab safety gurus Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman.
Speaker 1:Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.