The Lab Safety Gurus
Discover the secrets to enhancing laboratory safety without the hassle of navigating complex regulations and modifying established practices.
Tune in to the enlightening discussions led by the knowledgeable Dan the Lab Safety Man and infectious disease behaviorist Sean Kaufman. Together, they explore a wide range of lab safety subjects on a weekly basis.
Stay up-to-date with the latest trends and engaging debates surrounding lab safety by tuning in to every episode.
Don't miss out on this valuable resource!
The Lab Safety Gurus
Navigating Conflict and Communication Challenges in Laboratory Teams
Ever wondered how to handle that colleague who just doesn't seem to get it? On the latest episode of the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast, we promise to equip you with practical strategies and real-life anecdotes to tackle even the most challenging coworkers in your lab. From those who hog the spotlight to others who bend or break the rules, we break down various difficult personality types and explore the generational shifts impacting workplace dynamics. Learn how maintaining high standards and clear communication can significantly improve job commitment and performance quality.
Join us as we highlight the power of professionalism, setting boundaries, and effective communication to foster a respectful and efficient workplace. Hear transformative stories about resolving conflicts with respect and love and discover why every action must have a corresponding reaction to create a structured work environment. We also stress the critical importance of safety compliance and proper use of PPE. Get actionable advice from hosts Dan and Sean on promoting a culture of safety and ensuring that everyone adheres to essential protocols. Tune in for an insightful discussion that promises to transform how you navigate your lab's social landscape.
Welcome to the Lab Safety Gurus Podcast. I'm Dan Scungio.
Speaker 2:And I'm Sean Kaufman, and together we're providing safety insights for those working in laboratory settings. Doing safety together, dan Scungio, how are you doing, sean Kaufman?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great today. How about you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing good. It's a Friday. I'm getting ready for the weekend. I know you probably are as well.
Speaker 1:I'm ready for it.
Speaker 2:Well, let's you know what. Today I got to pick the topic and again, as most of our listeners they may not know, dan we just kind of have informal conversations that last about 15 minutes. That's kind of what we do for those who are working and supporting any type of lab function out there. But today I'd like to talk about you know, I don't know, maybe it's called a stinker or a hater or just someone who's just difficult in the workplace. You know someone who's just a challenging coworker. Have you faced any of those?
Speaker 1:So you know, I worked in the lab for over 30 years now and as a co-worker of some stinkers, I definitely have run into that. I managed labs for over 11 years and I had to really work with some stinkers in that time. And uh, yes, I have. And as a lab safety officer, I can tell you stories about stinkers galore. Well, let's talk.
Speaker 2:Let's define a little bit of stinker. I mean, I'll say one, you say one. Let's go back and forth One of the stinkers that has hurt me in the past, and again we're going to throw some stinkers out Individuals that lie, take credit for work that they've never done, work that you've done, and they take credit for it and then they lie about it. That's a stinker I've dealt with in the workforce. How about you?
Speaker 1:Ouch, that's a bad one. Yeah, what comes to mind? I can think of people who have been around for a long time and they think they know it all, but they don't really follow any of the rules or regulations or procedures that are in the laboratory. That's a stinker.
Speaker 2:Another one gosh individuals who really just don't want to work. They don't carry their weight. You always seem to be covering for them. That's another one that I've run into, yep.
Speaker 1:And I can think of many people over the years who, to me, they want up, that they call out, they show up late, they don't show up on time and they have no consideration for their coworkers. They don't do it necessarily out of spite or because there's evil in their heart. They just don't realize, I think, a lot of times the effects they have on their coworker. But they're still a stinker.
Speaker 2:Absolutely One thing that really bothers me too, and maybe it's a generational thing, I don't know. I throw it out here, dan, this is something that intrigues me. When I get paid to do a job, I'm sacrificing to a certain degree my personal autonomy, which basically means that I say to an employee in exchange for my time, you're going to give me pay. But that also means that when you pay me, I'm going to do things the way that you want me to do them, not the way that I choose to do them, but the way that you're asking me to do them. For some strange reason.
Speaker 2:That doesn't seem to make sense to people today. You know, a leader will tell people how to do something and say this is what we expect of you, and then the person says well, I'm not doing it. And that surprises me, because the way I grew up was kind of like if you're paying me to do a job, then I'm going to do the job the way you want me to do it, not the way that I choose to do it, but the way that you're actually expecting me to do it. I don't know. What are your thoughts on?
Speaker 1:that I agree with you, but I was brought up that way. I think it is part generational, but I also think we don't as employers. We don't communicate that message well enough when an employee starts. I think that's part of it, but I also think the other part is and I think it runs deeper generationally there's a lot less commitment going on in the world right now when it comes to jobs. I see people who are travelers or who are contracted people or who get sign-on bonuses, who just up and leave the job, despite any consequences, despite losing money, despite not getting their contract paid out and all of that, and they just want that freedom to be able to go to the next better place.
Speaker 2:I see that a lot more now. Hey, you know, dan, listen, I have to be honest with you. I don't blame them. Look, employers today are not loyal to their staff. I mean, they are really managing overhead Sometimes. Now, keep in mind I'm generalizing here, but you know, when a staff member doesn't feel like the employees or the employers care about them, then what benefit is it for them to stay?
Speaker 2:I kind of love the younger generation's appeal to freedom and flexibility and more of a balanced work-life aspect. I like that. But here's the problem I'm having. This is a challenge I think many people are having that shouldn't come at the expense of the quality of product or work you're doing. That's the challenge we're having. That's the thought I'm having, because the work that we're doing in laboratories are so important in so many ways. If it's clinical, we're truly trying to identify and help doctors and nurses diagnose patients. If it's research, we're trying to identify solutions for very dangerous pathogens. If it's animal health, I mean there's all sorts of things that we do where we have to have good quality outcomes. But it is challenging. I mean it's challenging, I don't know what are your thoughts.
Speaker 1:It is, but I almost feel like we're in that. In my career in the lab, I feel like I'm sort of in a gap between organizations that used to be loyal to their employees and therefore employees were loyal in return. I have had some issues with the places where I've worked, some major issues at some times with how I was treated, but I still stuck it out where maybe there were some issues that other people wouldn't have stuck it out, but I stuck it out because I wanted a pension, I was thinking about retirement, and I came to realize over the years that no organization is going to give you what you really want at the end of your career. You might get a gold watch, you might get a pen, you might get a thank you and a pat. Get a pen. You might get a thank you and a pat on the back.
Speaker 1:The rewards of the job and this is just my way of thinking because of my personal experiences the rewards of the job have to come from you. So if you understand the work that you're doing in a laboratory is important, that you're affecting, helping people in a positive way, I think you have to remember your own, your own values, job satisfaction as part of the reward of why you do the job. I don't feel like you can depend on an organization to do that for you anymore. I think those days are gone.
Speaker 2:I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1:At my age I'm okay with that. But I think a lot of other people who are younger are not as okay.
Speaker 2:Well, this is the sad part. This is where it comes into, because one of the things that we're seeing in the workplace today is this absentee, you know, absentee leadership. Uh, you know, the leaders just aren't there. They're not holding staff accountable. And so there are good staff members out there that are working really hard, but like cancer, you know, if it's not aggressively treated in the body, it spreads. And here's the problem. You're at work and you're working with a stinker. You're working with somebody who's just it's not making the lab, you're working in fun. I mean, maybe even in the past you've had a great culture Everybody's synergistic, they're complimenting each other, they're working really well together, and then, all of a sudden, that one comes in and it starts to cause some problems. What do we do then, dan? I mean, what are your thoughts Like? What happens when that begins to happen?
Speaker 1:You know, I hear that all the time, sean, from people who reach out to me with questions about lab safety, because a lot of times people are working with co-workers or employees who won't comply with PPE you know, wearing PPE and things like that and they view this as just as bad, as just kind of what you described. You know, but it could be a stinker doing that, it could be a stinker doing something else, and what do you do about it? It will affect the morale of the entire lab if you don't deal with it, and so you do have to, and you have to be careful about how you deal with it and you have to be careful about what you ignore. I've always said this with regard to lab safety you know the manager walks into the lab. I got to. Really I got to get the second shift covered. Today I don't have any blood bank coverage, and so I'm going to walk past Johnny who's chewing gum and walk past Lisa who's got her lab coat wide open. But I can't focus on that right now. I got to go back to the office, fix the schedule.
Speaker 1:So you didn't mean to be doing something that hurts your safety culture as you're walking through and not saying anything about those issues, but you harmed your safety culture.
Speaker 1:And the same thing is true for that manager or leader who allows a stinker to continue to be late every day, whatever it is, because, just like you said, it will grow like a cancer into something bad throughout the lab and the cancer could be. This is a bad manager we have and I have to work with a terrible coworker, so it's almost twice as bad for the other employees in the lab. So I'd have to say don't ignore those things, don't let those things pass you by. Use if you have trouble dealing with people. You know I'm not great with confrontation. I don't like it, but when I have to go up to somebody I use the tools and resources that I've learned over the years. I always talk about the book Crucial Accountability because it teaches you all kinds of tools to help you deal with situations like that, to deal with the stinkers, because you have to. You can't not deal with them or the problems they're creating or you will just lose everybody in your lab.
Speaker 2:No, that's, you know that's. And again, if we lose everybody in the lab, we lose important contributions in what it is that we're doing to fight infectious diseases or whatever we're doing, regardless of the mission we have in our labs. You know, let me tell you I believe in. I like to simplify things, dan. There are three things that I believe have to be addressed with a stinker and it's very tough, I have to listen.
Speaker 2:There are people out there that do not like conflict. There are people out there that are introverts. There are people out there that are very hopeful. They like to believe that, you know, maybe if we give people a little bit more time, it's going to get better. And I liken stinkers in the workplace to cancer I really do and all of those approaches. There are people who ignore cancer, people who need to go out there and have colonoscopies. They don't want to. There are people that get cancer diagnosis and say you know what? I'm going to give it some time. We'll see where it goes from here, and things can get worse, or it could be slow and progressive. Who knows, things can get better. But the point is that these are the three strategies I aim for, dan.
Speaker 2:The first one is maintaining professionalism at all costs, and I mean that.
Speaker 2:I think one thing that's really hard is some people will lose their cool. They will let things build like a volcano and it gets to a point where, all of a sudden, an eruption occurs and nobody knows what's going on certainly not the stinker, because nothing was ever said to them prior. And now what becomes the issue is, instead of their performance becoming the issue, how you're communicating and how you're acting around them becomes the issue, and that's a diversion. So to me, you may run into places or people that cause immense frustration. It's almost like the lack of common sense causes anger, like you just cannot believe that something like this is happening, that someone is choosing to work like this person is working, like they're demonstrating the lack of professionalism that you would expect from them, but that doesn't mean you change and come down to their level. It means that you rise up and remain the professional you're hoping for them to be. So that's the first thing I would say is maintain professional. I don't know, dan, do you have any comments on that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can remember a brief story when I first became a manager, I had no mentoring or anybody to teach me how to be a manager and I was probably too young for the job. And there was one person in the lab who was a problem child for me and she and I got into some knock down, drag out arguments in the middle of the laboratory, which is not professional. I did not maintain my professionalism and she felt like I didn't respect her because of that. And so, yes, you have to keep a cool head, you have to be professional and you also have to love your people, no matter who they are, no matter how they treat you, because when you start to treat them with love and respect, things turn around. And for us in that relationship, that's what did it for me. I had to change my approach with her to one of respect and it worked.
Speaker 1:No, very good we became great friends after that.
Speaker 2:No, no, very good. The second thing, after maintaining professionalism, that I like to do is, like what you mentioned earlier you've got to communicate effectively, you've got to be direct and it's got to be consistent. And you have to have open and direct and clear conversations with that stinker. Any issues that you're having they should know about. It should not be a surprise to them that you're having a difficulty with their performance in the workplace. You've got to be open, direct and consistent in your communication. What do you think, dan?
Speaker 1:Yep, and so even if that person is just somebody who isn't compliant, when you have a compliance discussion about maybe wearing a lab coat or gloves or something, you end that communication with a question like do we have any other issues? Are there any other reasons why you can't do this in the future, so that I don't have to be talking to you about this again? And when you get sort of a promise from them, the next time you have an issue you have a much deeper conversation about commitment and keeping promises. That will go a little bit deeper and help you further with that person.
Speaker 2:No, I love it. And last but not least, as a behaviorist, one of the things that I think is most important is setting boundaries, and it's kind of a for every action there's a reaction relationship. Humans like this, by the way. They really truly do If people understand that for this action, this is what's going to occur. It's not if, or maybe it's for every action there's a reaction. I think when you're dealing with stinkers in the workplace, dan, you've got to set boundaries, you've got to let them know this is what we expect of you, and if the expectations aren't met, then this is what's going to happen, and this is and it does happen. So I think setting boundaries is that. That's that third process for me. Where look? I like to maintain professionalism, I like to be open and direct with my communication and I like to set boundaries, or, you know, put into effect action, reaction aspects, meaning this is what we expect and if it's not met, this is what's going to happen. What are your thoughts, dan?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think those three key things will help you with stinkers all the different kinds of stinkers that we talked about in different situations. The most common question I get as a safety consultant is how do I get my staff to comply with safety regulations and PPE and things like that? And I think if you maintain professionalism, communicate what the expectations are effectively and openly and set those boundaries, you're going to have success there, in all of those things Agree 100%, Dan.
Speaker 2:It's always good talking to you, man. Have a great weekend.
Speaker 1:You do the same. Sean, Take care.
Speaker 2:We are the Lab Safety Gurus Dan Scungio and Sean Kaufman.
Speaker 1:Thank you for letting us do lab safety together.